incentive to use the monetary wherewithal, whether it's the right amount or an excessive amount which i would argue, but that's not the issue. the issue is, they need to be incentives to use widely available liquidity, the lowest interest rates in american history, put it to work, to create more american jobs, and increase american prosperity. >> if we're really arguing -- >> unless they do that they will have failed the american people. >> the fiscal cliff brings a lot of austerity very quickly. but we all think that, you know, sooner or later we need some type of austerity, whether it's on a scale, you know, like the fiscal cliff is a 10, we don't want a deal that is a 1, that just, you know, that doesn't cut spending, that doesn't raise revenue. so i just worry that, you know, we seem like we don't want it, we never want any pain in this country anymore, and we know what happens when you don't clear the system. we just seem to muddle along. >> well, this is the issue. this is what leadership is all about. and we've had congresses that literally for decades have kicked the can down the road.